Doing Big Brave Things With The Support of the PGSD Community with Laura Miller Leave a comment

Building a business is a big brave thing – especially as a perfectionist. So in this episode I’m interviewing PGSDer Laura Miller about how she has used the support of the Perfectionists Getting Shit Done community to create insane personal growth and results for herself during her 6 years (!!) as an active PGSDer.

We also discuss the value of PGSD as a lifetime access program and why you can get all of the community benefits of PGSD without having to actively post or be seen inside PGSD. Laura also shares her story of how PGSD helped to pick her back up after a big fail so she could go on to create wild success. And she gives her best advice for PGSDers on how to connect with the PGSD community and the different ways that can look.

If you’re a perfectionist and you’re building a business, you want to listen to this episode today. JOIN PGSD TODAY: The doors to PGSD are now officially open. Join us today by signing up at samlaurabrown.com/pgsd. Enrollment is closing strictly at 11:59pm EST on Friday, 6 February.

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Introduction
Hi and welcome to another episode of The Perfectionism Project. A podcast full of perfectionism advice for entrepreneurs. My name is Sam Laura Brown, I help entrepreneurs release their perfectionism handbrake, so they can get out of their own way and build a fulfilling and profitable business. I’m the founder of the Perfectionists Getting Shit Done group coaching program, which is otherwise known as PGSD. And for even more perfectionism advice to help you with your business, you can follow me on Instagram @perfectionismproject.

Sam Laura Brown (Custom Introduction)
This episode. You want to listen to it in full. I have just finished recording it with Laura, who is one of our PGSDers, a lifer. In her words, she has been in PGSD since 2020, and it’s a lifetime access program, and she we talk about in the episode, but I invited her onto the podcast because she shared in the pgsd forum about how valuable lifetime access to the program has been for her, as well as the fact that I have been able to coach her and like gotten to know her so well through it being a long term coaching relationship, and she just wanted to share about the value of that. And so what I did is I wanted to create a conversation that would be so helpful for anyone who’s thinking about signing up for PGSD perfectionist getting shit done, as well as for our PGSDers.

So this conversation with PGSDer Laura Miller is just going to be so helpful, and just we’re really talking about how to use the pgsd community and pgsd in general to connect with yourself, your business, with your goals, with your personal development, with your courage, with your capacity with who you want to be in the world, like how to use pgsd, and how pgsd is a way for you to really be connected and also really become someone who feels safe enough to do big, brave things and to go for it, and to have a safe place to land. We talk about so many different things that are just going to be incredibly helpful for you to hear, because having other people to do this work alongside like the work that I talk about in the personal development series, having other people in a community. It’s so valuable, and I personally believe it is more valuable than if you were to do that work alone with a coach.

It’s why PGSD is the way that it is. It’s very specifically designed to support you, to not be in shame, and a big part of that is to be able to witness others who are having the same struggles as you, who are having the same things going on. It just helps you not feel like there’s something wrong with me and everyone else is doing better or different. It’s just like, oh, this is normal. Like, I’m having a normal experience. Oh, good, thank god. Okay, so what do we do now? Like, it’s just so helpful to have certain experiences normalized, to have a safe place to share things. If you’re a lurker and you don’t want to share stuff, we talk about that too. And if you want to be anonymous inside PGSD, that is also an option, and you can be fully supported.

So we talk about all of that inside this episode that you’re about to listen to, and I want to invite you into perfectionist getting shit done. At the time of release of this podcast episode, we are officially open for our PGSD enrollment. We only open a few times a year, and it’s a lifetime access program. So once you’re in, you’re in, there’s no expiry, so there’s no benefit to delaying this out, like you can just get inside ASAP and really have the structure, the tools, the support for your perfectionist brain. As a as an entrepreneur who is building a business and getting that business off the ground and getting to the place where you’re able to make an income and then a full time income from your business, if that’s your goal, like a lot of our pgse, is we are the place to be. We really want to we just really want to support you inside. I really want to invite you in so you can go to samlaurabrown.com/pgsd to go and sign up today and get instant lifetime access to the program.

Oh, I’m just so excited to be inviting you in, and the doors are open now, so go and join us. And I really hope you enjoy this conversation with Laura. It was incredibly valuable as we were recording, I was just like, this is just going to be the best to hear and really help you to understand what being fully supported to do courageous things looks like, because we don’t just, like, push you to, like, be uncomfortable, like, go outside your comfort zone, or just feel the fear and do it anyway, like there’s so much courage required to really go for it in business, especially if you have life circumstances, like you have a job, or you have kids, or you have a job and kids or a health condition, like we are also doing other things in our life besides business. And so it can be. If you think, and I talk about this towards the end of the episode, if you think, like, okay, but I’m scared to sign up, because I’m just going to go in and they’re going to push me. We are not going to do that. What we do in pgsd is we teach and support you about how to support yourself, to do courageous things that are uncomfortable, things that you are willing and have the desire to do.

So it will be. It’s always your choice. You are always in control, and we are just there, supporting you, cheering you on, giving you the tools for your perfectionist brain that work for a perfectionist who is specifically doing the vulnerable Act, the courageous act of building a business. It’s all there for you inside the program, and we just really support you and hold you and help you feel safe, to show up in the world and do big, brave things when you feel ready to do them, and to celebrate the wins and to also be there to hold you through any failures and any setbacks. And those are going to be inevitable, like, if you’re really going for it, there’s going to be hard times, and that’s one of the biggest reasons I want to invite you in, because entrepreneurship, like I talked about in the personal development series, like entrepreneurship, is inherently hard. It’s not hard because you’re doing it wrong. It’s just hard.

There’s so many skill sets, so much emotional capacity required. It like, goes against our perfectionist brains, who just want to be liked and do everything right. And like, when you’ve done well in school, like, it just brings up a lot of stuff, especially for perfectionist and I just really want to be your coach and support you with that, and have you be in a community as well that supports you with that, and have you get your perfectionist mindset working for you instead of against you. So come join us. Doors are open now, and we’ll close at 11:59pm eastern time on Friday the sixth of February. So you want to sign up ASAP, so you don’t miss this enrollment. So I hope you join us inside pgsd. I’d love to be a coach. I’d love to meet you inside the program and support you. And I hope you enjoy this interview with PGSDer, Laura Miller.

Sam Laura Brown
Hi, Laura, welcome back to the podcast.

Laura Miller
Thanks, Sam. I’m excited to be here again.

Sam Laura Brown
I’m so excited for this conversation. So I haven’t told you what it is before we’ve started recording, but I want to begin with what you posted in the PGSD forum, because that’s what sparked me inviting you back onto the podcast, and then what I want to do is really get your wisdom on. And this is what I’ve written down, how to use the PGSD community to stay connected to your business, your goals, your personal development and your safety. So that’s oh, take it amazing categories, I’ve just been brainstorming because I want this episode to be so helpful for anyone who is thinking about pgsd. This will be released during open enrollment, and I want it to be so helpful for our PGSDers as well to really reflect and just like how this is a guide of exactly what I just said, like, how to really use the pgsd community, not like you use it as in, like, I don’t know, in some kind of weird way, but like, I will, like, make the most of it. It’s just like, how to connect with the pgsd community, including, we’ll talk about like, what to do if you’re a local you don’t have to be posting to be connected.

How to really have the community element of pgsd be something that really supports connection and like having belief that fuels you to your goals, or like having emotional safety and being insufficiency and not being in that fight or flight and like thinking everything’s life and death, which we can often do with business when it feels like it’s all a test of how smart we are and how much people like us. So I wanted to start by reading out what you posted in the forum, which just like, made my day to read, Oh God, it’s just over here. Chuffed. It was like, Oh, this is the best. And it was just so generous to share. So I’m gonna read it out, and then we’ll just go for there. So this is, like, last week you posted in your persistence log. You tagged me, and then you said I was just thinking about how valuable this program has been for me, in large part because you’re able to build long term relationships with PGSDers in a way that a lot of coaches and even therapists and doctors don’t or can’t do.

I know I feel super comfortable in this group to share very vulnerable things, which I think speaks volumes both to the community you’ve built as a report you’ve been able to build through offering long term support to us. PGSDers, I’ve checked out some other people’s coaching ecosystems, and none of them have the same kind of depth, warmth and safety as pgsd, I didn’t want to start a whole thread about it, but I know you’ve been talking a lot lately on the podcast and in coaching about connection. So this felt very relevant to bring up. I’m sure you have your own plans for podcast topics, but I just wanted to mention it that I think the lifetime access to pgsd is a huge selling point that a lot of coaching containers don’t offer just an idea for addressing pricing objections. If that’s something you’re even thinking about us lifers get insane ROI, return on investment with you in pgsd, thank you again for sharing that this, like words of affirmation is my love language. I just love hearing that the intention that we have with pgsd is being received.

And I’ve loved having you in the community for so long I went back in your persistence log, and your first post was on the 23rd of February, 2020, yep, so years ago I have been and as you mentioned, that post, pgsd is a lifetime access coaching program. So once you’re in, you’re in, that doesn’t mean you have to hang out with us forever, and we’ll talk about that too. I want to talk about using, like, having the pgsd community and pgsd be a place for connection, like, for short term, so for like, three to six months, as someone is learning how to really go from like, taking inconsistent action and having a really hard time showing up and feeling safe to put themselves out there, to actually being in the place where they are taking action and following through. Like, that’s about three to six months for the pgsd transformation, but you have been actively posting. How many posts? And it was 15 pages. Yeah, it’s 15 pages. How many posts? But you have been 359 replies within your persistence vlog.

Laura Miller
Most of those are probably me, at least over half of them are for sure.

Sam Laura Brown
And it’s not to say that that’s the only way to do it. And I really want to talk What if you’re a lurker and you don’t want to voice it all or anything like that as things like that. But this is, I think you’re such a great person to talk about with this topic that you have been in pgsd for a long time. I have been your coach for a long time, and I wrote an email about this a couple of weeks ago as well, but this quote that I came across, which is, shame dies when stories are told in safe spaces. And that reasons I started pgsd because I was doing one on one coaching with perfectionists and everyone just felt like, like there was always this shame of like, Oh, I’m so grateful. I’m so glad to have help. But this is, like, really shameful versus in pgsd, when it’s that format and it’s designed to be a really safe space because of this. Like, it really helps remove so much shame just from seeing so many other people have the same struggles. It’s like, Oh, good. It’s not just me, who’s the weird wrong one? Like, oh, we’re all in this. Oh, what are we gonna do? Instead of, like, Okay, well now, like, it’s, it’s just me, and I can’t be fake, like, all of that.

So do you have anything to say about, I know it’s a deep place to start, but about shame, specifically, and, yeah, and how the pgsd community has helped. And, like, when I say pgsd community, I mean, like, the fact that it’s a group, like, it is a community where you can connect, not just to yourself and your business and to me as your coach, but you connect with other PGSDers, and you’re someone who’s always like, you offer your thoughts and perspectives, and everyone finds it so helpful as well. So like, what would you say about the shame side of things, and how perfectionism, we’re trying to avoid shame. So it’s like there’s so much shame that perfectionist entrepreneurs inherently carry. And it’s like one of the things you gotta you gotta be able to, like process and like, not be in the shame. Otherwise it’s so hard to get anything done.

Laura Miller
Yes, 100% actually. Okay, this is really interesting, an interesting theme for my week, because I was at work yesterday and we had a guest speaker give a presentation to our team who is the director of the Entrepreneurship Center at my university. So since this is the public podcast, I guess I’ll clarify that I’m in grad school currently to become a career counselor, and which has a like mental health counseling foundation, and which was not at all where I started in pgsd, not even remotely close, but, and so I work in the Career Center here at my university and but that’s separate from our Entrepreneurship Center. So, you know, obviously there’s like, considerable overlap in terms of, like the type of services that we offer students, but whereas I work primarily with folks who are seeking more traditional employee type of situations.

We also have this piece of the university that works with folks who are pursuing entrepreneurship, and so the director came and talked to us yesterday, which was really interesting, because I’m the only person on my entire team, including my supervisors, that actually has entrepreneurial experience, and so it’s always a little bit interesting for me to kind of understand my professional lane as a career counselor in the career center. But the the guy who came to talk opened his presentation acknowledging how vulnerable it is to start a business. And this is a guy who’s, like, straight, hetero, white man, like, you know, just like, very like, business bro kind of guy, like, the kind of guy who, if you’re drawn to pgsd, you’d probably be very intimidated by him, because he’s just like, you know, he majored in business in undergrad, majored in big business in grad school, like, you know, has just tons and tons and tons of awards. He’s on the board of like, fucking 20 different organizations, you know. And is just like, very, like, intimidating, I think.

And so I found it very, very interesting that he started his presentation talking about, yeah, it’s a very, very vulnerable thing to start a business, because you have to be willing to fail in front of people, you know, like, when you’re building something from scratch that you don’t know if you’re going to be able to, like, If anybody’s going to want what you’re offering, like, That’s so scary, whereas, like, when you’re a traditional employee, like the people who know when you fail are far fewer that that pool is much smaller. It’s like your manager and, like, maybe your team, unless it’s like a very like public kind of you know, if you’re high up in the company, or if you have, like, broken a law in a very significant way, like if you mess up as an employee, or if you get fired, or if you get restructured out of your organization. It’s a very private, shameful experience, whereas, for those of us who are drawn to business, it is not. So, yeah, I don’t know. I feel like I’ve, I’ve gotten a bit on a tangent, but is that a good starting point for this conversation?

Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, so it tell me about there is a shame, like the vulnerability and the potential for shame, and then with perfectionism, like the way we shame ourselves as well, when everything isn’t perfectly working seamlessly, which, like, that’s not entrepreneurship that that would ever happen for anyone. But in terms of that quote, shame dies when stories are told in safe spaces. You with the vulnerability that comes up with pursuing business goals, goals in general, growing, changing like how has what does it look like you to have pgsd support you with it’s kind of like the two different things, of like, you will still have shame come up like that. It’s a we’re not trying to never be in shame and have that, but to actually be able to process shame and also being able to be in thought patterns that mean you don’t have shame to begin with, because a lot of times we have shame from thought like these perfectionist errors that we think like, oh, I should, I should never make a mistake, and then that causes shame when we make a mistake when, like, it’s a thought error to think that we should never make a mistake in the first place.

So that shame is avoidable because it’s coming from a thought era. So we want to, like, change how we’re thinking so we have less shame overall, but also in our relationships with ourselves, we stop shaming ourselves all the time. And also, there will be times where, like, you post a video on YouTube and you like bed your soul and you are so excited about it, and then no one views. It, or someone comments on it, like, what are you even doing that was ridiculous? Or what? Like, I know for me, I’ve talked about on the podcast before, the podcast, like, This podcast is where I like bear it all. I’m like, here’s my successes, here’s my failures, here’s all, like, the inner workings of my brain, and here’s what I’m going for and and like, follow me along as I like succeed and fail and all the things in between. And then to go to the podcast reviews and see one star podcast reviews of people literally saying exactly I like, what my perfectionist brain like, what my inner critic is saying, to have someone else say that with a one star review, and like, the wash of shame from that, it’s like, there’s gonna be, like, when you’re publishing stuff and putting yourself out there, there is going to be shame. So how has pgsd helped you with that?

Laura Miller
Yeah, okay, yes. This is absolutely a question that I can answer. So I think it really starts Sam with how specific you are about the client you talk to. Because, like, I think the fact that you are not trying to be everybody’s business coach means that you attract a very specific type of person who is experiencing a very specific type of emotional phenomenon. And so then that means that everybody who’s within pgsd like, we come in knowing that we’re all there because we’re all having the same struggle, you know? And like, it’s, it’s still scary, right? Whenever you join a new community, whenever you’re meeting new people, especially like in this kind of context, where it’s this very emotionally vulnerable place to be like that requires bravery. It requires courage to be willing to sign up, to be willing to invest in yourself and like, believe in yourself that you will be able to see the transformation that you want to see, so that you get that return on investment, not just like financially either, but in terms of like, the energy, the work, the time, the emotional energy and emotional processing and the growth, right? Like, there’s so much more to it than just the financial investment.

When you’re signing up for something like this, like you’re signing up for a journey, man. And if you’re like me, you’re signing up for a six year long journey, or more, really, I mean, it’s gonna be more. I’m gonna be here till the bitter end. So, but I think, yeah, the fact that you are there to support people who are going through such a specific thing in a specific context, like the specificity of perfectionism, and the way that you talk about it, and that it’s like, specifically for perfectionists in business like, I think that it creates this like energy, this, this, what’s the word I’m looking for. It creates this culture of emotional safety, because we all know that we’re all going through the same thing, right? And this kind of goes back to the comment or the post that I made in the in my progress log, persistence log, yes, showing my age in the program. I think, yeah, going back to what I was talking about in the persistence log, in terms of, like, how specific you are and how you’re not trying to be everybody’s coach.

I think makes it is, like, exactly what makes it a safe space for us to really go deep, right? Because, like I mentioned in my comment that, like, I’ve sort of explored some other people’s coaching ecosystems, you know, people that I watch their like YouTube videos or listen to their podcasts or whatever, and a lot of them are also coaches. And like, you know, every so often I’ll sort of feel like, man, you know, like, maybe I’m ready to, kind of like, branch out and add some, some new communities to my life. And so, you know, I’ll go and check out their coaching world. And consistently, I find that, like, the interactions between the members in these coaching worlds, and to be fair, like, I’m only generally signing up for either, like the free tier or like the lowest paid tier when I’m, like, kind of flirting with a new coach, I guess, because, you know, I want to check it out before I make that kind of commitment, to see if they are going to be a fit, right?

And, yeah, consistently, I find that, like the just like the interactions between the members of these group programs, it’s just not the same. It doesn’t hit the same. The conversations aren’t as deep. There isn’t the same sort of like level of deep like this, like shared experience that we all have in pgsd, even if we’re all at, like, different phases of the perfectionist growth cycle, I guess, or like if we’re, you know, experiencing different, you know, specific challenges within our business at the end of the day, like we’re all, I think experiencing very similar emotional challenges within the context of being entrepreneurs. And so just like having that, like shared context, I don’t know, I think it enables us to, yeah, have have a culture of emotional safety with one another, that we can get really vulnerable. And I mean, as that quote said, like, shame dies when you tell the story of it, or I’m paraphrasing, but I think it’s true. Like, I think there’s so much value in having this relationship, not just with you, Sam, but with each other, to be able to go into the forum and say, like, guys, I am struggling with this. I need support, and like, knowing that we’re not just going to have your support, which, of course, is very valuable, but to, like, have multiple different people coming to our aid, you know, or coming to celebrate the wins. Because, like, you know, it’s the same people who are like, okay, hey, man, I get it this struggle, I feel you like I’m right there with you. And then when you have a win, getting the like pat on the back from those people means so much more. Like, whenever I hit a goal and I log it on the forum, and people are like, What are you doing to celebrate? And I’m like, What do you mean? This is my celebration, you know. Like just telling people who understand how much this milestone means, like, that’s, that’s it, right?

Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, I’m wondering, and it’s like, if you don’t, I’m wondering if there’s anything that pops into your mind from the last six years that you also be comfortable sharing on the podcast where you either felt ashamed about something, I guess a situation, if you felt ashamed about something, and then through being in the pgsc community or coaching, or like whatever format, Like whatever avenue you chose within pgsd to help how, like, if you can think of a specific example or story of that for you that you’d be comfortable sharing. If not, that’s okay.

Laura Miller
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we can do the big one, which is when I first joined pgsd, my goal. Because this was, this was back when the growth goal was called the impossible goal. And it was not yet a revenue goal. It was like kind of any big goal, yeah. And so the, the first impossible goal that I set for myself was to produce a, like an evening length circus show. And like, you know, the long story short, it took about a year and a half, but I finally got to the point where I was, like, doing it. I was producing it. I had it cast, I had my venue, I had music, I had, like, rehearsals were starting, and like, I just the perfectionist handbrake just flew on. And like at, I mean, there was a lot of stuff going on in my life at this particular moment in time, and so, you know, it’s hard for me to, like condense it for like this episode, but.

Sam Laura Brown
Big life circumstances, even regardless of what they are, often like that brings up uncertainty. And then yes, I feel like, oh, like, yeah, on the perfectionism. At least in my experience, if there’s uncertainty personal life, even positive uncertainty, then my perfectionism handbrake is more likely to come on.

Laura Miller
Yeah, oh, 100% and there was a ton of uncertainty in my life at this particular moment in time. But yeah, so it was, like, the fall of 2021, and yeah, basically, like, you know, I was all ready to start creating this show. We started rehearsals, and I just was like, I can’t do it. And so I canceled it, and I had invested 1000s upon 1000s of dollars. Everybody in my life knew about it. Everybody in pgsd knew about it, like, you know, everybody in my in my career world, but also my, like, personal life, like everybody knew it that I was working on this show. I’d been talking about it. I’d been working on it for years, and then, like, I got so close to doing it, and I was just like, like, I can’t, I can’t do it, and I canceled it. And I like, I mean, you want to talk about shame, you know, because I had like, eight people in contract to, like, pay them, you know, I had the venue secured. I had, like, all of these, all of these, like, big, like, people depending on me, and so, like, that was really felt like shit, you know, because it’s like I wasn’t just letting myself down.

I was letting everyone in my world down. And, yeah, I basically out of that, like, within the next, like two months, I, like, broke up with my partner. I moved back in with my parents, two states away. I took six months, eight months off of working entirely, because I just was, like, so in the shame hole about what had happened. And, you know, like, I think I took maybe a couple of months off from pgsd around that time as well, and I came back, and I was very vulnerable with my story. And like, people rallied, and they were there for me. You know, our PGSDers were like, man, like you did a brave thing though, you know, and you know, I really think that, like having pgsd as, like my safe space in that particular season of my life was like, really, really critical at me being able to recover as effectively and being able to, like, learn from that failure too, right? Because, like, they’re, I mean, they say, Oh, that like, every, every failure is a lesson, and it’s true. But try telling your perfectionist nervous system that like, but.

Sam Laura Brown
There’s something wrong with me, yeah.

Laura Miller
Yeah, yeah. And so like, yeah, having having people in my corner who understood the emotional stakes that were in play in all of this. Because as bad as it sounds on paper to like a non perfectionist or a non entrepreneur, like, I feel like, PGSDers are the only people in my life who, like, really, truly got the magnitude of what happened.

Sam Laura Brown
Because I think and really going for it, to get the magnitude of it. Because if you aren’t really going for it and doing brave things, then it’s like, yeah, that sucks, but like to actually know, oh, I know that pain of I got out of my own way enough to really go for it, and then it, it didn’t happen, especially when it feels like, and it didn’t happen because of me, like that, kind like, it wasn’t An external thing, even though there was obviously a lot of circumstances, our perfectionist brain goes into like, oh, and it’s because I wasn’t good enough to do it, or like, things like that. But if you if someone isn’t up to big brave things, and most people I talk to in the world want to be up to big brave things, but don’t have the emotional safety to do it, and that’s a big part. PGSD is like, we give you the belief and the emotional safety as well, so you have a soft place to land, because things aren’t always going to work out. But like I as your coach, is just such a privilege to have witnessed your growth like I remember all of that time and you, like, in the forum being like, oh my god, guys, like, this was a disaster.

Like, and then like to you, then, like, be able to go for big brave things again. And like, you have multiple. Well, since then, even just top of mind, there’s like, two or three, like, big braids, things that you have gone all in with. And like that alone is the accomplishment, like getting to feel a lot and to feel expressed and to feel like for me, I love achieving a goal, but what I love more is being a person who goes after a goal instead of being a person who dreams about a goal. I don’t actually feel connected to myself when I’m just in the dreaming. I feel connected in the doing and in like that, that feeling of, like having all the uncertainty of, like, I’m up to something really big, and it I could, it could just go, like, completely sideways, but just like I feel alive in that, I feel connected in that, like being someone who does brave things and who, like when I left my job in accounting, like having my manager be like, I wish I had the courage that you, like, I wish I had that I don’t have the courage to leave the corporate world and try something else like to just, it’s like having the courage is the accomplishment.

And yes, well said, learn from it, and not just sometimes we can learn, oh, I’m learning, that I should never try something big and brave again. So a lot of people will do one thing that’s big and brave, often in like, you’re in your 20s, and then go, okay, well, lesson, never do that again, instead of lesson, get supported like, process the shame, pick myself back up and do it again and do like. And you’ve had all these different ways that you have done big, brave things like going on YouTube and doing like. There’s so many different things that I know you learned the most helpful lesson from that, not the lesson I should hide and not try, but the lesson of, oh, I can actually handle going all in and it not working out like I can handle and it’s fucking hard, and I can handle the shame of like everyone, because this is the thing where we, like, try so hard to avoid, as you said, like the feeling of letting people down and other people being disappointed, or like laughing at you and being like, huh, Laura thought she could do this show and look, she totally crumbled. Like, it’s like the fear of, like, all the things we don’t like saying to ourselves or hearing from ourselves, everyone else will be like haha and agreeing with that, and it’s like you had that, and it’s such a gift that it didn’t work out how you planned.

Laura Miller
Absolutely 1,000%

Sam Laura Brown
Handle it. Yes, we’ll learn how to get supported in the aftermath of going big, and you were able to then go big again. And like, have, like, grad school, like you posted a lot in your persistence log about like that. I feel like now it probably feels like was that even a big deal for me, but like that was something that was like, that is such a big accomplishment, and how am I going to study and like all of this, and like the applications and you did it, it’s like all of these, like, just from having that emotional safety and like witnessing yourself go for it and then survive it, not going to plan. Is the ultimate safety of like, oh, I can handle the worst case, which you did, yep, yep. So I just was witnessing that, seeing you then, like, be able to go for it again and again, and have a lot of that, then be really successful. Like, you achieved your growth goal from last year. Like, it’s just like, ah, yeah, and it’s such a credit. Well, like, just the courage. Like that courage is the accomplishment, and I just can go for it.

Laura Miller
Yeah, I agree. I think. I mean, I’ve, I’ve grown immeasurably since knowing you, Sam, but I think one of the biggest areas of my growth has been getting really crystal clear about my personal values and making the conscious decision that my number one most important personal value is courage. We talked about this, I think on my last episode, actually, that like courage, I see it as my most important value, because it’s the value that unlocks everything else, like I cannot live into my other highest values without having courage. So yeah, but I also want to say, like, kind of coming back to the the group aspect of pgsd, I was reflecting on this in my 2025 review, I think that something that is really cool, that wasn’t even necessarily an intentional choice on my part, it was just sort of a byproduct of, I guess, the way I move in the world, but, like, I am pretty much entirely surrounded by people who are going for it, as you said, like, and a big piece of that is because of pgsd.

And you know, beyond the emotional safety that is cultivated by you being able to speak so clearly to such a specific set of challenges for your clients, but then us having the gift of being surrounded by each other, like, you know, there’s, there’s so much like, obviously, getting coached from you is super valuable. Being able to, like, listen to you talk about your experience and getting your perspective super valuable. And I think for me, an even more valuable piece is being able to watch other people get coached and like, being able to witness them going big, being able to be within a group where there’s like, yeah, a culture not just of emotional safety, but a culture of courage, where we’re all, like, really going for it, and we can support each other and be like, fuck yeah, and we all know that we’re not going to be like, Ooh, you shouldn’t have done that. I told you you shouldn’t have done that.

Whereas, like, I mean, you you talk about this a lot, about having, like, you know, people in your life who mean well and who want the best for you, but they have a different vision of what they believe is best for you, which is often kind of a more limited view, I think, like, we don’t have that in pgsd. In pgsd, it’s like, yeah, go for it. I’m going to enable you to go for your dreams. I’m going to tell you to do it. But it’s like, it’s not this, like, gross hustle culture, broey like and I think that it’s a fine line right between like having a container that feels like supportive of people, going for gold, going for the goals, going for a big life, a big career, but without shaming each other when things go wrong, right? Like, I feel like, so much content, so many other coaches, so many other just like, voices and sources out there that otherwise could provide that sort of like, you know, motivation, yeah, go get it. Go get it. Like, don’t create that emotional safety of like, okay, but what happens when I inevitably fail? Because that is going to happen eventually. You know.

Sam Laura Brown
Yes, like, you need somewhere to be able to go to lick your wounds and to like, want have to do that in private by yourself, and you can but like, it’s having having some like, as I said before, like a safe place to land, to know that you can be like, I really went for it and then I choked, or like, or I didn’t, but else happened, or like, and we celebrate the wins and all of that that is often even more vulnerable thing to do is to like, be in success and be sharing it as a perfectionist, but to have this, the safety of it’s not just like, Oh, I get supported and cheered on when I’m succeeding and when I’m winning, but then when I’m not, I have to hide that.

And then I come back to coaching. I’m succeeding again. I come back to the community to like, be like, Yeah, I’m going well, but it’s like having somewhere that you can share, share the like, not just like, kind of the surface level version, but like, I feel really ashamed about this, and like, just sharing it alone, even before anyone else has responded, is so freeing to just share it somewhere that you know people aren’t going to be like, well, just try this, or hear some advice, or don’t be sad, or, like any of that dismissive stuff, Oh, I get I got you, and like, we’re here for you, and I love it. Just reminded me of this quote from Maria Sharapova, the tennis player, is one of my favorite quotes, I think, ever of all time that she said on a podcast. She was like, the quote she chose her tennis coach. She was like, I want to win with a coach who can lose with me.

Like, I want success with a coach who can stand by me when I’m also failing and even at goosebumps just saying it now, it’s just yeah, I just want to, like, what is the point of support if you only get it? And this is like, perfectionism, right? We’re like, I’m only going to be supported and loved when I’m being good, when I look perfect, when I do things perfectly, and it’s very stressful and does not feel emotionally safe to feel like, oh. Only if I’m being good and performing will I be okay. But to be able to win with a coach who will also stand by you and support you long term during periods of failure, which is inevitable in entrepreneurship as it is in tennis or any sport like you’re not going to win every match, it’s like being able to have someone that can support you when you’re winning and when you’re losing, instead of here, I think it’s often, I don’t even think it’s necessarily anyone’s fault. It’s just like the way that marketing has gone is kind of like this idea underpinning it, of like, you should be succeeding all the time, and if you’re not, it’s because you’re doing something wrong. It’s because you’ve got the wrong strategy or the wrong messaging or anything like that.

And I just in on Development Series, I was talking about, like, no, it’s just inherently, there’s going to be really hard times, and there’s going to be failure, even if you’re getting everything, so to speak, right, like it’s just the uncertain game of business. And so do you have somewhere where when you are failing, or when you’re in the progress and process of building momentum and figuring things out? Do you have somewhere that you can get that support and the belief fuel to like, keep you going when you when you’re like, I believe and I don’t believe. And then this person in my life was like, Oh, should you, like, you sure you should be doing that and like all of that, to just have somewhere you can be like, and plug in the private podcast to the coaching replays, and be like, Oh, yes, I like, I’m held. I’ve got this. I’m going to keep going.

I want to build a business, even if it’s hard, like, it’s going to be hard. I love a challenge. I love rising to a challenge. I love personal development. Like, that’s how we roll in PGSD. We all love the personal development. So it’s like having, yeah, I just think about that quote so much like, I want to win with the coach and for me too, like my coach, like I I also support it, because I know in my hardest times I will get even more support and even more encouraged. It’s like, not this, okay, I’ll like, I’ll cheer you on when you’re winning, but if not, then like you’re doing something wrong. I don’t believe in you anymore, just like that unwavering belief that it’s just it feels so nice to be helped. And I loved hearing.

Laura Miller
1,000% yes, yes, well and like, and also like, having the opportunity to hold and support each other too, right? Like it’s, it’s equally a gift to me as a member, to not just know that I’m supported by my fellow PGSDers, but to have the opportunity to witness other people grow and like, be in a group where that process is normalized, and like, I feel a sense of reward as well when I get to be the cheerleader and I get to see, like, Hey, I remember when you were really struggling with that, and now you’re fucking doing it. Hell yeah, you know.

Sam Laura Brown
And I believe that, because you write these, like, amazing essays in pgsd, and you’re like, just, just like you seeing other PGSDers up and just like, putting belief under their wings of like, like, I see you and you’re going for it, and like, I just want to keep encouraging you. And it’s I agree, it feels like such a gift to be able to also be supportive, especially if you don’t have a lot of people in your day to day life who are going for it, and like you don’t get to be like, Oh my God, you’re going for it, and I believe in you. And like you’re doing this big thing, if you don’t get to do that much in your life, like having pgse, where you can also be the most supportive and like expressed in that way version, I think, like, I love that personally as well. Like, I love feeling supportive. I love feeling helpful, like I love feeling purposeful and being able to give someone on and be like you’ve got this, or like, oh, I noticed you said this. And like, two months ago you said that, and now you’re acting like you’re not succeeding, but like, did you notice, like you’ve actually completely changed? And they’re like, oh my god, I have. So it’s like, it’s, talk about, I have a few things. Okay, want to talk about, so I want to talk about a couple of features of PGSD. Then I want to talk about three types of people, and then the time period. So first of all, the persistence log, which we’ve mentioned, and there’s also the let’s celebrate section in that too.

But what would be your advice or wisdom on the persistence log, and how to use that to stay connected to yourself, your business, your goals, your emotional safety, your personal development, like and there’s how you do it, and there’s how other people do it. And I know you’ve, like, witnessed a lot of, I mean, you’ve been in there for six years, actively posting, so like, you’ve seen we. Every different version. There’s no like, it has to look this certain way, like, there’s so many different ways to do it. But do you have any wisdom or like, do you want to share like, what the persistence log is, like, the philosophy of that and how to use it?

Laura Miller
Yeah. I mean, it’s where you log your persistence. I think like, I use it as, like, a catch all kind of brain dump space. I also use the Track your wins section, or celebrate your wins section of the forum pretty liberally as well. But like, you know, if it’s a thing where it’s like, it’s not necessarily that I’ve, like, you know, had a big, like, measurable win, but it still feels like profound and I want to log it for myself and share it with the community. I tend to put that in my persistence log, so, you know, in the persistence log, I’ll do well nowadays, my power planning process looks primarily like, I’ll do it in my notes app on my computer, and then I copy paste into the the person’s business log, because my my notes app has like, checklist functions and things like that. But so, you know, every week I do, I put proof of my power planning into my persistence log, but then, like, throughout the week, you know, I will probably have some kind of, like, Aha moment, or some kind of breakthrough, or just like something that is like eating up my brain space, you know, whether it’s like something that’s like a really positive kind of breakthrough, aha moment.

Or if it’s like a really unhelpful thought that’s feels like it’s weighing me down, I think in both situations, that’s where I go to my persistence log, just to, like, get it out. And it’s so helpful, like it’s helpful in the sense that any journaling is helpful to be able to externalize those things, but then it’s also helpful, because I know that somebody else is going to look at it and tell me, hey. Like, I mean, as you said, like, have you noticed this? Have you noticed that you’re talking like this? Like, you know, here’s an alternative way to think about it. And yeah, so that’s how I personally use the my persistence log, and then I also love reading about other people’s wins, reading other people’s persistence logs, because, again, I think like having the privilege of peeking into how other folks in the program are kind of thinking about their business. It often shines a light on my own blind spots.

Because again, like, I mean, we all have this very common shared foundation, this very specific experience that we’re all going through. And so when I see somebody kind of talking about something that they’re going through in a way that I hadn’t thought about it before, it’s like, oh, duh, you know, or, yeah, it’ll just be like, it’ll be very obvious to me, if somebody is in some kind of, like, you know, distorted thinking about some issue that they’re facing, and then be like, Oh, hey. Like, I’ve been there. I am there. Like, and then it’s just, it’s helpful for me to, like, self reflect on, okay, they’re thinking like that. Where am I? Maybe thinking like that as well? How can I apply my own advice, my own feedback, to my situation? You know?

Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, yeah. I love your your persistence log. You probably do the longest post of everyone is my estimate. I read them all, and I’m often like, oh, did you notice this? Did you notice this? Like, just pointing out little like, perfectionist thought errors, and also cheering you on and being like, a lot of the did you notice it is like, did you notice, like, there’s this, course that happened in, like, from six months ago to now, and like, you’ve just completely you’re obviously not seeing that. So, like, let me point it out to you. There’s also in the forum, ask a coach, which I feel like you don’t use that much.

Laura Miller
Yeah, that’s true. I don’t really use it that much. I primarily put it all on my persistence log.

Sam Laura Brown
Yeah. And then we do it there, but there is ask a coach. So for written coaching, you can post there, and currently I’m the one replying to all of those, so you can get any coaching there, and you can read everyone else’s as well. Often people comment like, oh, my god, that was so helpful for me to read that. So as that, there’s also an ask the I’m just looking at now, and ask the community section as well, when you want to explicitly ask other PGSDers different questions, of like, hey, how do you do this? Or like, have you had a time where this happened and things like that? So there’s a way I I love having been in a community where you can ask other people in the community. I’ve been in some way you can only ask for coaching. But I’m like, I want to, I want to, like, talk to everyone else here as well, so we’ve got that.

So I just want to move on to the next thing I want to talk about so we can stick to time. So I wanted to talk about three kinds of people that we have pgses, who are all these different kinds of people. And at times, I found in different situations, I’m different, different ones of these. But for anyone who’s listening, who’s like, this sounds amazing. I shall not be posting ever in pgsc forum you’re talking about. I shall never be getting coached on a call, and I shall never, ever post and ask a coach. So I’ve been in places where I’m like, I’m here to fully work, and you literally will not know I’m in this community, and it’s kind of like I haven’t yet got the emotional safety to like, join myself in. So I just want to, like, can I just be a fly on the wall and I’m just gonna what? And I’ve been in, I get so much benefit still from that, because if it’s a group situation like this, where it’s so specific that and so many PGSDers, like, we have tests of audios for people. I’m like, I don’t actually know you, because I’ve never coached you. You have never posted. But they’re like, hearing the amazing results I got because they just listened to the private podcast replays and they read, sometimes they didn’t even go in the forum, but they often read other people’s coaching and persistence logs. And like, they still got to feel like part of the community without having to share.

So there’s the three types. Is like, the kind of like, share it all, which I’d say you’re in that category. Yeah, like, share a win. And feel like, probably, from the beginning, you’ve been like that, but like, I want to share my persistence log, and like, I want to share. And then there’s the next kind of person is more of an occasional sharer, occasional in the sense that it’s like there’s an occasion that then they will share about. So either like an occasion of, like a failure, or an occasion of there’s something to celebrate, or like an occasion of something very specific, for some PGSDers that will be they share their weekly review and like, that’s the one occasion each week where they will post in their persistence log and share their weekly review and sometimes a screenshot of their power planning, sometimes not, but they’re like, they’ll share their answers to the weekly review prompts.

So there’s that. And then there’s the lurker who is like, no one’s ever even gonna know that I was in this in this community, but I am here. So for each of those kinds of people, I mean, probably the shareholder person has gotten the advice they need because we talked about them, but for the occasional sharer, or like, the kind of person who is a lurker, do you have any any thoughts on how they can use the pgse community to connect with their business and their goals and other people as well, because you can connect with someone even if you don’t talk to them like you can feel very connected, for example, to me as your coach, without me having to personally coach you. So do you have anything to say for the occasional person who’s sharing all the lurker in PGSD.

Laura Miller
Yeah, I will say for for any level really share at the level that you feel safe, right? Like going back to the culture of safety that we have, if what you need to. Feel safe in this community is to just lurk and to just listen to the playback, or to maybe come to the calls, but not get coached, not contribute, just like, you know, be there to watch. Like, if that’s what you need to do, to participate and get what you came here for, then do that, you know, like, nobody here is going to pressure you to do more than what you’re comfortable with. We might encourage you. We might gently challenge you to take one small step outside of your comfort zone. But like, if you are like, Oh my gosh, it’s it’s already scary enough for me to make this investment and to join this community at all. You don’t need to be like me, or you’re posting multiple times a week and coming to as many coaching calls as possible, and like, you know, just being very participatory. That’s me as a person. I am that way in every area of my life.

So it’s not just pgsd, but that’s, that’s how I personally get the most out of things right, is by like, actively contributing, actively engaging, and I recognize that different people are different, and that’s totally okay, and at the same time, like, holding multiple things at true, I want as true at once. I think if you hit a place where you’re like, Okay, I feel like I am no longer growing in this space, or I am not seeing results that I want. Or, you know, whatever it is, if you find yourself in a space where you just kind of feel stuck or dissatisfied, I would gently encourage you to again, not going full throttle, but take one tiny next step outside of your comfort zone. So if you’ve, if you’ve been a lurker, you’re not on the calls, you’re just listening to the replays, you’re just doing the courses, like you’re, you know, maybe posting in the forum once a month. Maybe consider coming to a call just to watch, and you can even, like, let Sam know before coaching. Hey, I’m just coming to watch so that you don’t get called on so I think, or, you know, you could challenge yourself to post, instead of just your persistence log in the forum. You could challenge yourself to just like, celebrate someone else’s win. You know, taking, like, a little tiny baby step a little bit further into the community, I think, will help you get more comfortable and potentially get more out of your experience.

Sam Laura Brown
Also, I want to say this just as you’re saying that it reminded me so the way it works in the forum is that you can have a profile photo and your name, if you would like, you can have it like for people who don’t have a profile photo, it’s just their letter of their first name. But you don’t have to have it be your name. You could have it be like, one of the PGSDers has their initials as like, so you don’t, you can’t actually, like, you couldn’t actually identify them out in the wild. That’s completely okay as well, for anyone who’s like, I really want to be involved, but like, can you not know it’s me? Yes, 100% like, and you can always email us when you sign up and say, like, Hey, can I or when you sign up, you pick your username, but you could be like, Hey, can I have my username be this and like, I don’t have a profile photo 100% because we want to have you. Like, meet you, where you are with, say, if you feel, or even not just safety, but like, how much does like you desire to show up and be active and in the community, and also like be visible like you don’t you can be active without having to be visible as yourself.

So I just wanted to mention that, in case anyone’s listening, they’re like, I love to be active, but can we not know that it’s me that’s totally fine, and then if you change your mind, you can change your mind on that in the future, and we’ll update it for you as well. But it really is just all centered around having a safe space to do the work alongside others who are doing the same work and who are using the same philosophies and the same tools, the growth, goal, power, planning, clean rest, safe visibility, like, all of this stuff that I talked about in the personal development series, and we’re talking about like, it’s all centered around those core philosophies as well, which is really important, instead of like, oh, have you tried this goal setting method? Or like, have you tried this productivity thing? Or have you, like, it’s like, Oh no, it’s all everyone will support you around having what we teach you in pgsd work for you and and like, it’s so helpful to be brought back to a core philosophy, instead of when you’re having a hard time, for someone to say, Okay, have you tried this different thing? Have you tried this different thing? Like, that’s so overwhelming.

When if something’s not working, someone says, Okay, we’ll try something completely different instead of like, okay, let’s stick with the same philosophy, but let’s just tweak it so that it meets you where you are, so that it can work for you. And have a really good go at it before we say, Okay, this isn’t going to work at all. Like, it’s really I found for me as well, when I’m in a coaching group that, like, everyone supports you to apply what you learn in that group, rather than, like, telling you go and learn these other things from other people. It’s not that there aren’t other helpful things to learn, but then it just becomes confusing when you then have to, like, piece together. Okay, Sam says this, but this other person says that, and now I’m having to, like, reconcile the two, and then oftentimes that makes us disconnect from being in the group, because, like, well, now I’m doing this thing that no one else is talking about, so I can’t share in here. So like, we will everyone as well, will support you to do the things that we teach. And like, the philosophy in pgse, which is all designed to get your perfectionist brain on your side.

There’s so many different like, tweaks that people have made to power planning and like, to different things like that, that it’s not like it has to look this certain rigid way, but we do retain the same philosophies and bring you back to really like what you signed up for, which is to learn how to take action in a way that’s in alignment with your values and like, the life you want to have as a perfectionist who finds it really scary, who builds a business and, like, wants to be courageous. And I want to say too, like, what you’re saying about the culture of courage, everyone doesn’t come in with the courage. You get the courage inside with. Like, if anyone listening to that is like, great, well, I can’t go and hang out with all these courageous people like not me. So scared. It’s like, No. Everyone comes in scared to go for it in their business. And then by being in pgsd and doing the personal development work that we teach, and using the tools you get the courage after you join. So just if anyone’s like, I need the courage first. So I’m not courageous enough yet, because you’re not in PGSD like the PGSD comes first, and then it’s so much easier as well to be courageous when you have that safe place to land. It makes being courageous feel a lot more doable and have tools that support your perfectionist brain and all of that. So definitely, for no one, do not tell yourself you should be courageous before you sign up.

Laura Miller
Well, like, I have a couple of things to add to that too. I will say like for again, adding like, nobody, no newcomer, certainly. But even us, like lifers, nobody is bullying each other to, like, do things before you’re ready to do them. Like, you know you’re, you’re, yeah, if you’re feeling not super courageous right now, that’s okay, because we all came in that way. And I will add as well that, like, if you’re coming in feeling very uncourageous and like, you know, because that’s what we’re here to build ultimately, like, yeah, try not to compare yourself to people like me, who’ve been doing this process for over half a decade now. You know, like, I find myself not having that conversation so much in pgsd, but like in other things that I do, like, I’ve been doing aerial acrobatics for 11 years now, and like, I often take classes that are well below my skill level, because that’s what works with my schedule. And I will have to talk to the people in that class, and they’ll be like, I’ve been doing this for almost a year, and I’m like, please do not compare yourself to me. Like, don’t think that you should be more, like, further than where you are right now. Like you’re at the perfect spot where you are right now. I am the one wrong place in that, like, aerial class context. But, yeah, don’t. Don’t feel like you have to already be where I’m at if you haven’t already been in this program for as long as I haven’t, even if you have, like, you know, we’re all growing at different rates and have different things going on and.

Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, and I think we’ve talked about too in the forum. I feel like maybe it was last year we were, like, having a discussion about it that, like, because you mentioned about pushing yourself, like it’s not about like we’re not pushing you and we’re not teaching you how to push yourself. Will you be uncomfortable? Yes, at times, but from a place of self support and like, having the willingness and desire to do the uncomfortable thing. It’s not just like, Okay, you’re super scared. Just like, feel the fear and do it anyway and just like, go and do whatever. It’s not that because, like, courage and being creators will look so different for everyone, because it’s all about your emotional experience. And we all have different stories and different perfectionist thoughts that create different feelings and like experiences with doing certain things. So what’s a really courageous thing for someone might not require courage for someone else, what we do in PGSD is support you, to support yourself. To. To do uncomfortable things that you’re willing and have the desire to do. And so it’s, it’s not I just, it’s because I don’t want anyone listening. Like, Oh, I’m gonna, like, sign up and then they’ll like, push me, like, just go and post and just go into an Instagram Live or, like, just, like, it’s not that.

Laura Miller
No, yeah, it’s not that.

Sam Laura Brown
You need to support yourself to do the courageous or uncomfortable things you have the willingness and the desire to do, and if you don’t have the the willingness, but say you have the desire like, we will help you build up the willingness and like, the emotional capacity to do it and like and the self support to do it so you don’t feel like, as soon as you’re done, you’re just gonna, like, beat yourself up because it wasn’t absolutely perfect. Like, it’s so hard to be courageous when you’re fearing your future self, judging you and saying, Well, that wasn’t good enough. Why did you even bother like, so there’s so many things to shift to help you be courageous. So we don’t have you come in and just like, we push you to just do whatever it is really, yeah, supporting you, to support yourself, to do uncomfortable things you have the desire and willingness to do. The final thing I want to talk about before is the time period thing.

So you posted about being a lifer, the lifetime access. I mean, everyone is a lifer in PGSD, in the sense of everyone has lifetime access. Whether you’re paying full or payment plan, you will have lifetime access to pgsd. But there are some people who, like yourself, are like, this is where I want to be. This is so supportive for me. I want to be here for as as long as I possibly can. Like, I’m going to be here and actively posting. And then there are also other PGSDers who come in and will be really active in the community, or actively working for about, I’d say, three to six months, sometimes 12 months, and then they will go and do something else as well. Like, it’s not like, once you’re in, like you have to, like, keep hanging out with us forever. Like you can come in and get what you came for, which is to go from hiding and not being able to be visible and being in your own way and all of that, to showing up and sharing and being you and like. And then you can go elsewhere. You’ll still have access. You can still come back. And we have a lot of PGSDers as well, who will be active for like a year, and they’ll go away, and they’ll be like, Hello me again. I’m back into it. And like, we’ll like, be like, here I am. I’m like, welcome back. And like, let’s go. So do you have any advice or wisdom on this? Like, someone who wants to do a shorter term approach? I mean, obviously everyone probably goes in with that because you’re like, I don’t know if I like it there enough to want to be there forever, but we’re not saying you have to be in there actively forever. But do you have any thoughts or anything to share on that?

Laura Miller
Honestly, probably similar advice of just like, you know, trust yourself to know what you need and but at the same time, like, be open to potentially changing your mind, you know, we are happy to support you however you want to do pgsd. And you know, I, my selfish side wants you to, like, at least share your social media so that we can keep in touch, like, outside of the pgsd world, especially if you’re like, kind of a power user like me for six months, and then you say, Okay, it’s time for me to go, like, let me at least be friends with you on Instagram. But, um, but, you know, I, yeah, I think the I think of like, how I’ve approached therapy throughout my life that, like, I I’ve been like, in and out of therapy, there’s been, you know, I think, like, the last few years I’ve felt like the most supportive thing for me is, like, to know that I have that as another, like, safe place to land, however, like, there, you know, there comes a point where it’s like, it feels very optional, and it’s like, I’m really just going because, like, It’s my routine. It feels like routine maintenance. It feels like, you know, it’s in my budget, so I can do it.

But, you know, like my my current therapist actually just recently told me that she is moving on to a new job, so, and I opted not to pursue referrals, because I’m like, you know, I’m okay. I’ll be okay without a therapist for a while, you know, and when things happen in life, and I need that kind of support again, I know how to get it. I know where to find it. I know who to call. And I think I would, yeah, say the same about pgsd, that it’s just like, you know if, if it’s the most supportive thing for you, like it is for me, to just kind of use it as my touch point, my place of accountability on a weekly basis. It’s also just like, sort of a if I have a little bit of downtime and I’m bored, like, I just go into the forum, because to me, that feels better than like, scrolling aimlessly on social media. But if you are like, I am too busy for that shit, like, I’m here to get what I want, and go like. Do that. You know, there’s, there’s really no right or wrong way to engage.

Sam Laura Brown
Amazing. Okay, this has been so good. Is there anything else you want to say before we wrap up? You have been so generous in everything that you share. But any final words, or, if anyone’s like, I want to be in there, what would you say? I mean, you’ve probably already said it in this episode but.

Laura Miller
If you want to be in, then come be in. We would love to have you truly consider this our open, warm invitation. We love to meet new people and expand our little community, even if you’re not as active as I am, but if you are, I would love to be your perfectionist friend. I love how many amazing friendships and connections I’ve made through this community over the years, like, truly, just so, so lovely to have friends all over the world. You know.

Sam Laura Brown
Amazing. And is there anywhere people can go to connect with you, besides inside PGSD if you join PGSD, when you join you will easily find Laura’s persistence log and be able to, Do you have anywhere if or if anyone like had questions or anything for you about pgsd, do you have anywhere people could ask you that’s not inside pgsd.

Laura Miller
Um. No, not right now, actually, because, yeah, I’m just like, I’m not really checking Instagram a whole lot these days. I Okay. I’ll give my Instagram, but know that I may not respond in a timely manner. My Instagram is @moveslikelaura, it is private, so you’ll have to send me a request. But if you send me a message that says, hey, I’m thinking about pgsd, like I’ll, I’ll answer it if I see anything.

Sam Laura Brown
If you want to be friend with Laura, join PGSD. That’s a way to I love. Okay, well, we will wrap up. Thank you so much, Laura. I appreciate you.

Laura Miller
Likewise, Sam, thank you for everything you do.

Outro
If you enjoyed this episode and you want me to be your coach and you want to be doing this work on a deep level with like-minded perfectionist entrepreneurs then I want to invite you to join us inside perfectionist getting shit done aka pgsd it’s my coaching program for perfectionist entrepreneurs and we do this personal development work that I have been talking about in this series. You get the tools the structure the support that gets your perfectionist brain working for you instead of against you; it is a lifetime access program it is absolutely incredible. So supportive—just everything you could want as a perfectionist entrepreneur so I want to invite you to join us inside the doors are opening on the 30th of January at 6 am Eastern time and close at 11:59 pm Eastern Time on Friday the 6th of February so to find out more today and join us inside the program go to samlaurabrown.com/pgsd.